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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
    Would this apply if showing up there with not ill inmtent but simply the desire to pick up possibly unfinished but fully paid for products ?
    From the little info i gathered it appears that he refused to hand out the pipes to you for reasons of not being finished once and another time as he claimed to intend to hand them/ ship to to their owners only.

    Now if one of them showed up and asked for picking up the pipes in whatever current state they may be he would be rid of the stress, save on shipping and be done with that deal whereas per now he could be subject of legal action and is under some pressure to complete and ship these pipes.

    Having them being picked up and finished elsewhere to then be shipped to their owners seems to be in both Hills and the customers best interrest now as it is obvious that he on himself would not finish or ship them out any more ( 3 yrs really leaves no leeway for reasonable doubt there) ?
    It's apparent to me he doesn't want to give them up. It's like holding on to the glory days of Flowsystems, they're trophies that other people paid for and are eagerly awaiting his "bad *** creation". Some people are just that way. Those people shouldn't do business with others.
    Quote Originally Posted by cablescum
    Not because you were a mod because you were a bastard.

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    Depths of Hell (06-27-2016)

  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
    Would this apply if showing up there with not ill inmtent but simply the desire to pick up possibly unfinished but fully paid for products ?
    From the little info i gathered it appears that he refused to hand out the pipes to you for reasons of not being finished once and another time as he claimed to intend to hand them/ ship to to their owners only.

    Now if one of them showed up and asked for picking up the pipes in whatever current state they may be he would be rid of the stress, save on shipping and be done with that deal whereas per now he could be subject of legal action and is under some pressure to complete and ship these pipes.

    Having them being picked up and finished elsewhere to then be shipped to their owners seems to be in both Hills and the customers best interrest now as it is obvious that he on himself would not finish or ship them out any more ( 3 yrs really leaves no leeway for reasonable doubt there) ?

    I'll volunteer to go get my pipe, along with anyone else's exhaust, if anyone wants to pitch in for a plane ticket.
    Although from the sounds of it, I imagine it'd be excessively difficult to set this up with Hill and have him agree to such terms.

  4. #18
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    Surprised there isn't a Facebook group yet. Group name. "Flowsystemsracing Didn't receive my pipe"

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtmonkey View Post
    Surprised there isn't a Facebook group yet. Group name. "Flowsystemsracing Didn't receive my pipe"
    Genius

  6. #20
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    I would actually try old school first. Get his address and write a letter. Your choice to threaten small claims court nicely or harshly. Someone just took my company to small claims court today for $300 so what have you got to lose.

  7. #21
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    Now that we all know that FS 60 pipes suck maybe getting your money back is a lot better than receiving the pipe and loose money on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
    I knew I was forgetting something, LUUBE!!!

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pushinit View Post
    Now that we all know that FS 60 pipes suck maybe getting your money back is a lot better than receiving the pipe and loose money on it.
    It appears sending a letter with an ultimatum, of one or multiple customers, may already help to reframe his perpective.
    Send one per user but at around the same time, getting a reminder from someone else each time he opens his mailbox should be uncomfortable.

    IF his reputation with others as perceived by them, not just in his mind, is of any value that should work and make him finish and ship the goods.

    If not:

    A such small claims proceeding would be comfortable and remind him about his obligations.

    Sending a followup letter offering to either ship the finished goods or go though proceedings may help as well.

    If someone ( reputable enough to be trusted with forwarding possibly received funds) goes through small claims proceedings it may be possible to compound his one claom by appending the other similar cases of other customers in some way, since small claims will likely not work as class action writing over the individual claims to one person or possible a cheap-to-set-up legal entity may be the most sensible way.

    This way all could be decided in one go.


    I don't know the total amount tied in this pipes and if Mr Hill is able or can easily be made to pay up on a such sentence, but it seems to be worth the try.

    3 years and no light at the end of the tunnel does not justify to hold hopes on a future receipt with no new incentivation for Mr Hill.
    Since he did not respond to prior enquiries it appears he is set on a particular path and not feeling as being under pressure to do the right thing at all ( this is not considering the reasons and their importance to him for not shipping and not communicating to even begin with - it may have started with an uncontrollable delay on supply/ external service needs side but went farther from there).

    If it was me i would not have waited for a year without any word and still expect this to solve itself. Hill apparently does think so, so do some of his customers (?).


    If he kept them for a rationale along the line of Yrselement suggested then sending the letter first would work best, in case the penny is not dropping and he is not satisfied with his memories and pictures at the wall but needsw to keep paid-for pipes in unfinished state then obtaining an enforceable title - and actually enforce it, possibly at a miinimal additioanl fee and with lots of paperwork involved - would probably be th eonly way to get something out of that.

  9. #23
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    bump
    FACEBOOK.COM/GOPEDREPAIRS FACEBOOK.COM/WHEELREPAIRGUYS

  10. #24
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    Next step should be for all involved to send a letter with a delivery due date according the allowable minimum of the ordonance upon whose small claims court you intend him to bring.

    If individuals receive a response they should post it up here, if not confirm so as well.

    It would be good if a complete list of people that will write letters and are active here was made and these people reported back within a month or so if they recevied reply or otherwise confirm the due dates they set have expired without response.


    Then it is small claims proceedings, on online business you can do this at your hometowns court.
    For an irrelavant reference, international buyers in Ireland with a similar issue coudl obtain a title from the local circuit court at a 25 Euro fee in a easy written process and request the forwarding and naturalization of the local title to the court in Arizona at Hills residence adress for no additional fee at all.

    Once everyone has a such title report back here again.


    Next and final step:

    Enforcement of a such title then is done according AZ laws, likely through a sort of Sheriffs department deputy officer -type of person.

    At this stage it may make sense to compound all your titles ( of so) uunder one listing with this office to save on cost - and realistically if Mr Hill has the 2 or 3 grand tied up in this he should pay up at this stage at latest - or hand out that pipes since this or money is what your court title should demand.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
    Next step should be for all involved to send a letter with a delivery due date according the allowable minimum of the ordonance upon whose small claims court you intend him to bring.

    If individuals receive a response they should post it up here, if not confirm so as well.

    It would be good if a complete list of people that will write letters and are active here was made and these people reported back within a month or so if they recevied reply or otherwise confirm the due dates they set have expired without response.


    Then it is small claims proceedings, on online business you can do this at your hometowns court.
    For an irrelavant reference, international buyers in Ireland with a similar issue coudl obtain a title from the local circuit court at a 25 Euro fee in a easy written process and request the forwarding and naturalization of the local title to the court in Arizona at Hills residence adress for no additional fee at all.

    Once everyone has a such title report back here again.


    Next and final step:

    Enforcement of a such title then is done according AZ laws, likely through a sort of Sheriffs department deputy officer -type of person.

    At this stage it may make sense to compound all your titles ( of so) uunder one listing with this office to save on cost - and realistically if Mr Hill has the 2 or 3 grand tied up in this he should pay up at this stage at latest - or hand out that pipes since this or money is what your court title should demand.


    I am completely down for this.

    My mother is a paralegal, so I can create a legitimate letterhead from an actual lawyer.
    Likely even a template, so those who also purchased a FS pipe can just fill in the blanks and send the letter as well.
    I wouldn't mind posting or IM'ing the template to others who are looking to do the same.

    I'm completely serious about this too. It's been 3 years without any real updates (give or take, I've forgotten exactly when I ordered).
    This is completely unacceptable in any line of business. And honestly, I can't believe a company that I once thought of very highly would do this to so many of its loyal customers.


    I will pledge to be the first to take action.
    Again, I am willing to make a template that others can use (filled with all the important legal jargon).
    It won't take longer than a few minutes to fill out and send the actual form/letter to Hill's residence or place of business.


    I just need some backing. It will have a much larger impact if multiple complaints are filed, especially within a relatively short period of time.
    I know many of you probably think this is a lost cause by now but, if we come together in an organized way, we may just be able to solve this issue.


    Who is with me?...

    Text or PM if you want a faster response. (9four1)53nine-57four7

  12. #26
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    not trying to talk shit, do it!!!!!
    Matt Etchells
    Flash-Systems ltd.

    Mattetch@gmail.com

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattetch View Post
    not trying to talk shit, do it!!!!!
    It's not talking shit at all Matt, people are owed. The thread stays open as long as folks are civil, this is a public forum that many frequent regardless of post count.

    I don't agree at all with this whole scenario, but I'm not affiliated with this situation so keep to myself.

    What time has proven, is that you have a better chance of collecting what's owed if you take action. Sitting back and just talking about it will get you nowhere. I think Jason is on the right track, and all the people involved should make the effort together.

    Unite, and take action gentlemen.
    Hell Fab

  14. #28
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    Doh, totally agree


    But the only issue I see is the statute of limitations for informal contracts regarding pre sale product, it may be too late for many, technically this is a multi state issue.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Depths of Hell View Post
    It's not talking shit at all Matt, people are owed. The thread stays open as long as folks are civil, this is a public forum that many frequent regardless of post count.

    I don't agree at all with this whole scenario, but I'm not affiliated with this situation so keep to myself.

    What time has proven, is that you have a better chance of collecting what's owed if you take action. Sitting back and just talking about it will get you nowhere. I think Jason is on the right track, and all the people involved should make the effort together.

    Unite, and take action gentlemen.

    Thanks DOH.
    My point exactly, we are much more likely to get our pipes or money if we send some type of formal letter(s) (whether or not this is still covered under the statue of limitations is another issue that can be handled at the appropriate time if needed).

    Just need a few more people to step out of the shadow, that are willing to send a letter with their name on it.
    Doing nothing and sitting by is obviously not getting us very far with Mr. Hill.
    Last edited by Jason_514; 07-12-2016 at 07:55 AM.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattetch View Post
    Doh, totally agree


    But the only issue I see is the statute of limitations for informal contracts regarding pre sale product, it may be too late for many, technically this is a multi state issue.
    Not sure if this applies at all, they ordered a ready to mount pipe in exchange for money, not a "presale product", and accordingly acted under standard consumer law regarding purchases in the internet.

    Part of this is that jurisdiction on claims can be had by the courts at place of residence of the buyer, since he put in his order at this location.

    In most EU countries the limitation for such claims is 6 years, it may be less or more in some US states, though - but that is easy to find out.

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